2UE Breakfast with Sandy Aloisi and John Stanley
9 July 2010
Topics: Proposed regional immigration processing centreSANDY ALOISI: Brendan O'Connor is the Minister for Home Affairs. He joins us on the line. Minister, good morning.
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Good morning, Sandy. Good morning, John.
SANDY ALOISI: Is there a plan?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: As the Prime Minister made clear on Tuesday, she said she'd had a discussion with President Ramos-Horta about the possibility of establishing a regional processing centre, and I think that's a good thing.
What seems to have been lost here, Sandy, is that the President thought that was a good idea and, yesterday, the Prime Minister of East Timor indicated a preparedness to discuss the detail, and we look forward to taking those discussions forward.
SANDY ALOISI: I think the point though seems to be, Minister, that she did give that strong impression that there would be a processing plant set up at East Timor, and over the next few days, as she did interviews, she never once tried to deter any journalist from saying that there would be such a complex built at East Timor. And then she said yesterday that it's just a vision. Is that not a bit of a watering down in your eyes?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Well, I guess, if I just look at the words that she referred to on Tuesday, it was, I know, that she said that there would be the possibility of establishing a regional processing centre for the purpose of receiving and processing of irregular entrants.
Now, I understand people believe they had a different impression. But she's made very clear that she will relentlessly pursue having a regional processing centre in this region, because it's the way forward. And it's the next logical step, Sandy. It's a step in the right direction and, what is important, and it seems to have been missed, the Prime Minister of East Timor has agreed with the President to sit down with Australia and talk about details of a proposal.
JOHN STANLEY: But his quote yesterday was - what plan? So what plan is there? Is there a plan or is it just a broad vision, or a hope, that they might come on board?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: No, fair point, but in her second week as Prime Minister, she made clear we needed to take this in a new direction in order to ensure we destroyed the product of people smuggling, and she said she was engaging with partners in the region, including the Prime Minister of New Zealand.
And what we've had since then is both the President and the Prime Minister of East Timor saying they want to sit down and look at the detail, and that's what we're going to do.
JOHN STANLEY: Do you really think though, a country as poor as that, is going to be able to host a centre. The Australian has a detailed coverage of East Timor today. The place is dirt poor, and yet you're talking about either a centre or the possibility of refugees living in the community where those refugees are having a much higher standard of living than the ordinary men and women of East Timor.
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: That's why we'll be sitting down and looking at the size, and scale and the legal framework, ensuring that it's oversighted by the UNHCR. These are things we'd like to discuss.
But, in the end, as you've said, East Timor is a democracy, it makes its own decisions. But the willingness to discuss this, and discuss the details, I think, suggests that we are looking forward.
JOHN STANLEY: Yeah. But if they say no, and you've restricted yourselves to countries that are signatories to the UN Refugee Convention, that leaves you with nowhere to go doesn't it?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: There's are a whole number of countries that are signatories to the convention.
JOHN STANLEY: But didn't the Howard Government go to all those countries back in 2001 and none of them were willing to be part of it?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Well, the Howard Government chose to unilaterally make the decision to go to Nauru, which led to a centre which had no United Nations role, which did not engage the region in the way in which we need to sustain this approach.
This is the more effective approach because it's engaging partners. That's why we've had the Prime Minister of New Zealand, who, of course, is a destination country willing to discuss these issues, because, in the end, I believe, John, we need to have the source, transit and destination countries having a conversation to get this right.
It is a regional problem needing a regional answer, and now we have both the President and the Prime Minister of East Timor saying they want to talk to us about the detail.
SANDY ALOISI: But Minister, because there is no concrete plan, you can understand why people feel fairly sceptical with an election around the corner, because people want policies, not visions. Wouldn't you agree?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: The Prime Minister said from the outset that this is not a quick fix and we're not promising that. There was no suggestion that we would be trying to find a quick fix that wasn't going to work. We were determined to look at a broad regional approach that will be effective and sustainable over the longer term.
Now, if you want to look by way of comparison at a slogan, you know, we've got Tony Abbott talking about turning back boats, I've been advised that that would only endanger our Customs and Defence personnel and not solve any problem, except to place people's lives in danger.
JOHN STANLEY: Yeah. I mean, the turning back boats is one thing, but do... and we know that their solution would be, presumably, to use Nauru. But, in your case, if East Timor says no, you're really left without a - with nothing, without anywhere to go at all beyond [indistinct] at Christmas Island.
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: John, we'll continue to talk to countries within the region. We share this problem.
JOHN STANLEY: But if those talks go on for, say, years, and they potentially could, in the meantime you'll keep processing at Christmas Island. Will that be right?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Well, we've currently got an orderly process, but we need to have a longer term sustainable fix for this issue.
JOHN STANLEY: But until that happens the present situation will continue?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: That's occurring to date, and we've managed this difficult issue, I believe, well in the circumstances where we've had an increase of people seeking to arrive as a result of conflicts in Sri Lanka and the war in Afghanistan. We've dealt with the matter well. We've had a much lower level of people arriving on the mainland undetected as was the case under the Howard government. But we are looking at a sustainable longer term approach, and I believe, John, it is the right way to go to engage with your neighbours and to have such a positive response by both the Prime Minister and President of East Timor to say they want to look at the detail …
JOHN STANLEY: [Indistinct] a positive response, the bloke was saying what plan.
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Well, that's what we're now, this is the next logical step. It's a step in the right direction.
JOHN STANLEY: But shouldn't you come up with a plan before you announced it?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: No, I think we need to engage with countries about the proposition. I think we need to talk to other countries. And the Prime Minister made clear, we're not about unilaterally making decisions. We're about engaging with our friends and partners in the region to help solve this problem over the longer term.
SANDY ALOISI: But we're going to go to the next election with no real idea of exactly what's going to happen with the asylum seeker issue, are we?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Well, as I've said to you, you have an Opposition who has a slogan...
SANDY ALOISI: But not about the Opposition, I'm talking about the government here.
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Well, I mean, if you're saying that we're going - the people of Australia will have to consider what the options are, the options are now, we an effective process now, but we need to look at a regional and longer term approach, and I believe that is the best way to go.
The Prime Minister is quite right when she says we need to have a sustainable solution. And the best way to do that, Sandy, is to engage with the partners in the region to find that solution, and we're doing so. And that's why East Timor, we welcome the fact that East Timor have said they want to sit down and look at the details of the proposal.
SANDY ALOISI: All right, Minister, thank you for your time.
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Thank you. Thanks...
SANDY ALOISI: Brendan O'Connor there, the Home Affairs Minister.
