2SM Mornings with Leon Delaney
9 July 2010
Topics: Proposed regional immigration processing centre
LEON DELANEY: Federal Minister for Home Affairs, Brendan O'Connor good morning.
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Good morning.
LEON DELANEY: How are you today?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: I'm well thank you.
LEON DELANEY: All right. Is the Government's asylum seeker policy taking on water and is it about to sink?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Look that's a metaphor but it's an unfair characterisation, I really do believe that. The Prime Minister on Tuesday said of course she'd spoken with the President of East Timor and the Prime Minister of New Zealand about a possibility of setting up a regional processing centre.
And since then we've had the President of East Timor meet with his Prime Minister and they both now agree that the President will sit down with this country and talk about the proposal in detail. That's a step forward, it's the next logical step because in the end we need a regional approach to this regional challenge.
LEON DELANEY: It does seem to have been a bizarre sequence of events though. After the Prime Minister made her speech earlier in the week, her remarks, whilst not specifically stating that such a centre would definitely be located in East Timor, clearly implied that and when the rest of us all made that inference, nobody made any effort to change that until yesterday when all of a sudden we're being told oh no, that's not what I said. You know, that seems a little strange.
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Look I understand people may say they weren't fully clear on issues, but the speech itself was very clear, there had been a discussion with a very significant figure in the region. I mean President Ramos-Horta is a renowned international figure and is concerned about humanitarian matters and is indeed an appropriate person to discuss such issues with. And for that reason, that engagement with East Timor was entirely appropriate.
LEON DELANEY: Yes.
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: And I think it's important we take stock on what was said. What was said on Tuesday by the Prime Minister is we need a regional approach. We need a regional framework. And we need to talk to our partners in the region to deal with this problem.
The next step was of course the President of that country engaged with the Prime Minister, after which the Prime Minister of East Timor has asked, has charged in fact the President of East Timor to now engage with this country, with Australia, in the detail of the proposal. That's entirely appropriate. But what Julia also said, what Julia Gillard also said is that there is no quick fix to this.
And I think we need to have a sustainable long term approach and indeed that's why this approach has been endorsed by a former Prime Minister Malcolm Fraser because he had to deal with the same issue.
LEON DELANEY: Whilst the conversation with the President of East Timor may be appropriate, is East Timor the appropriate location given the concerns that have been raised by that country's Prime Minister and other parliamentarians in East Timor? Quite legitimate concerns it would appear about the social impact in East Timor which is a rather impoverished country with an unemployment rate somewhere between 40 and 50 per cent, with many of it's citizens living on 50 cents a day. It could have quite a significant adverse social impact if not correctly managed, couldn't it?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: That's why we need to talk about the proposal and talk about the detail so that they can properly consider this matter. East Timor is a democracy. It's going to have different views and they are a robust democracy in so far as they do have a real debate and that's welcomed, as we have a debate in this country.
And the debate at the moment in this country is we either have a regional approach, a long term sustainable approach to dealing with this challenge of millions of people that have been displaced around the world but in our region and how we deal with that together.
Or we actually go with the slogan that's been proposed by the Opposition Leader Tony Abbott who thinks we can turn boats around and of course we know that it will only endanger the lives of our Customs and Defence personnel and indeed lead to drownings at sea.
LEON DELANEY: Has the debate, if you can call it that, been distorted out of all proportion, by focusing on the fate of a few thousand asylum seekers in boats when the real issue is the many millions of refugees around the world and the challenge that is presented to the international community?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Look I think there has been some distortion and therefore that has led to a greater level of concern in the community about the scale of the issue. As we've said all along, we know this is an important matter and we know Australians are concerned about us getting this right, but also it's important to note that there is a very small number by way of comparison to other countries, a very small number of people coming here in this manner.
And indeed also we have been successfully intercepting these vessels and processing people in an orderly manner. So our borders are protected. We've not had undetected arrivals on our mainland, the way in which occurred under the Howard Government. We do have a lot of resources to do that.
So therefore the approach taken to date has been good, but for a more effective sustainable approach to remove the product that's been sold by people smugglers, we do need a regional processing centre and that is the objective of the Government and that's why we want to engage with New Zealand, East Timor and Indonesia and other countries about how we do that.
LEON DELANEY: All right. Obviously it needs to be a multi-national approach otherwise it's not really an international processing centre is it?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: That's right.
LEON DELANEY: If East Timor turns out not to be a suitable location for that, what are the other alternatives realistically? Nauru?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Well the Prime Minister has made clear that we will engage with all willing partners in the region that are signatories to the Refugee Convention, in so far as having a centre. And we need to make sure that we engage fully.
Now there is a Bali process that's led by Australia and Indonesia that deals with this issue. That's been in place for some years now but we do need now to focus our energies in ensuring we take away the product that's being sold by people smugglers and that is luring people onto dangerous vessels on perilous journeys with a promise that they will get to their destination.
Now that endangers lives and of course at the same time it creates the capacity for people to be sold a promise that may end up being empty. What we need therefore is a centre so when people are considering embarking on these vessels, embarking on these perilous journeys, they understand that they will be dealt with the same way as other people are, properly, with dignity, but at a centre and that's the way forward in this very complex area of international policy.
LEON DELANEY: If you won't identify possible alternatives to East Timor, would you at least advise us if it's possible for such a centre to be set up in a country which is not signatory to the United Nations Convention?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Well we've said that we believe that we need a regional approach. We need a multi-lateral approach. We do not believe you can unilaterally impose your will on another country and we need to have our partners in the region working together.
That's source and transit and destination countries dealing with this matter as a region, as a regional community. And that's why we are focusing on those countries that are signatories to the convention. But that includes a whole array of countries.
But at this point I think it's important for those countries to come forward and show a preparedness and willingness to engage. We'll be engaging with them. At this point also, I think it's important to remember that we have the Prime Minister of East Timor charging the President to engage with us now on the detail of such a centre.
LEON DELANEY: Thanks very much for your time today.
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Not at all. Thank you very much.
LEON DELANEY: Brendan O'Connor, the Federal Minister for Home Affairs.