MTR 1377 Evenings with Luke Grant
6 July 2010
Topics: Regional approach to tackling people smuggling; National Youth Policing Model; national gambling exclusion orders
LUKE GRANT: Brendan O'Connor is the Minister for Home Affairs. He joins us every couple of Tuesday nights for a chat. He's on the line I think on the way to the airport. Evening Minister.
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Yeah good evening Luke.
LUKE GRANT: You doing well?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Yeah I'm pretty good thanks, yeah.
LUKE GRANT: Good on you. I just want to fire a couple of questions about today's announcement. Because I listened to you, I listened to the Prime Minister...
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Yep.
LUKE GRANT: ...I always thought the issue to do with the increase in the number of boats was to do with factors away from Australia and I bought the fact that it happened because the trouble in Afghanistan, Sri Lanka, and it wasn't just Australia, Italy, the United Kingdom, all around the world, we've all had an increase. So if that's the case, why do we have to do something? I mean if it's beyond - if it was beyond our control six months ago, why is it now something we have to act on by reigniting the Howard policy of the Pacific Solution?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: No I think that's a really important question. Firstly I still believe and the Government still believes that primarily these things happen because of displacement of people around the world. We've got 42 million displaced, 15 million within our region.
It happens because of famine, it happens because of civil war, it happens because of war generally. And as we've seen, because of Sri Lanka's civil war, and the war in Afghanistan, we've had a high, much higher number.
Under Howard it happened when Iraq was in major trouble, people fleeing Saddam Hussein. People were fleeing Afghanistan because of the Taliban back in the 1999/2000. So that's when you get this surge of people seeking to get to first world countries.
The one pull factor is that, in my view, is that first world countries was where people seek to go, but what we're looking to do today is to really dismantle the product that's been established by the people smugglers. And the best way to do that is to set up a regional approach so they cannot ply their trade, they cannot lure people onto dangerous boats and perilous journeys by saying they're going to get them to Australia.
One of the best ways to do that is for people to understand fully that we have a regional processing centre established in the region and it doesn't guarantee them a chance to get to Australia.
That's an important element and I think the Prime Minister made that clear and stood up today and was talking about effective policies to slow them.
LUKE GRANT: Okay, so when it comes to East Timor and New Zealand, they're not even across the line yet, how confident are we that at the end of the day, facing internal pressures that both these countries will say yeah righto, let's make this happen?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: No fair enough, that's a good point, they have only indicated that they have an interest in engaging, they've made clear that they do believe that we need a regional approach.
I think Prime Minister Key from New Zealand and President Ramos Horta from East Timor have said that they're willing to sit down and have a chat with the Prime Minister. You've got to remember, you know, she hasn't even finished her second week.
LUKE GRANT: Yeah.
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: The first week she sorted out the mining tax. This week she's enunciated I think a clear way forward for us. She is completely committed to making sure that we fix this problem.
It's complex though and what she has said and I think - you know and people will have to make judgements on this - but you can't fix this with a slogan.
It does take time, but we will be dedicating all of our efforts, our diplomatic efforts and our arguments about the need to have a regional approach and engaging more fully to get an outcome with countries such as New Zealand, East Timor, and other neighbours in the region.
LUKE GRANT: Yeah. Now a listener of mine, Paul, just made the point that there's almost a game of immigration lotto being played here, that if you have a crack at the ocean and get through, you move up the queue and in you come. If you go about it the normal way you can be waiting two or three or four years. I thought that's a fairly solid point, what do you say to that?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Well I think that's the concern. What the Prime Minister said the day that she was elevated to this very important position was to say she understood the anxiety people have and the concerns they have that some people might be being treated differently than others. I mean there are two problems. Firstly you might have a situation where people are managing to be settled quicker than others who are waiting in refugee settlement places.
LUKE GRANT: Yeah.
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: The other issue of course, and that's a concern that people say well you're getting a favour because you've managed to get here first, but their other one is that people think it's simple passage.
Unfortunately as we saw under Howard with nearly 350 perished in one vessel, and we've seen in recent times people dying, drowning at sea, this is a very dangerous way to try to, if you like, get in first and it has to be stopped, and we have to stop - and we do have to target the people smugglers because they're quite happy to take the life savings of these people, in many cases desperate people, stick them on boats that they don't even know will get to our shore safely.
So for all sorts of reasons to protect our borders, to do the right thing for the asylum seekers anyway and for those waiting elsewhere and to target these criminals we have to take this approach.
LUKE GRANT: Okay now you've announced this National Youth Policing Model and all of us are just sick to death of this continuing youth violence and anti-social behaviour, why do you think, Brendan, this will work?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Look the first thing I wanted to say is clearly the overwhelming resources and efforts come from state governments. But you know, for the first time the state police ministers and I, representing the Federal Police, and the Police Commissioners sat down and agreed to have a national approach to policing, and national policing for youth.
What we've said is there are things that are working in some states, some jurisdictions that we need to examine to see whether they can be adapted to other jurisdictions. So in other words it's about working out ways to ensure better road use by young people, it's about tackling alcohol and drug abuse, and of course those two issues are combined, as we know, unfortunately, our young people sometimes will drink too much and then get in a vehicle.
They're not the only ones who do it mind you...
LUKE GRANT: Sure.
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: ...but we know young people who are out in places they don't drive often, they're out at night, they're at risk to themselves and a risk to others, not just those in the car. I guess what we've done is what we've said at this police ministers meeting and that’s that we want to share the best ideas across the country and start to measure what is working and then apply them nationally.
And what's happened, and this hasn't really been done before, the Police Commissioners and Ministers that agree that we're going to do that share it, work out what works and start applying it across the place so we can, you know, basically cherry pick the best ideas from each territory.
LUKE GRANT: That's a very clever idea. How soon can those ideas be tabled, looked at, and can we get some action?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Well we - that's already started.
LUKE GRANT: Okay.
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: So what we've got now is already the agency starting to swap ideas and start to show what has been working and it's now going to be on the agenda for the Ministers' Council so we're not just going to discuss it and move on. We're going to make sure it's on the agenda at future Ministers' meetings and with the Police Commissioners directly involved.
LUKE GRANT: Good on you, that's a great thing. Now what - the national gambling exclusion orders, can you give me that in 30 seconds?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: I can give it to you in 30 seconds. We're worried about people misusing gambling venues to money launder. The problem is when we put in the exclusion orders to prevent them getting to the venue, they just head off for example from Melbourne to Sydney and do it again.
LUKE GRANT: Right.
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: What we're doing now is saying if you've got an exclusion order, you let the other jurisdictions know so they ban these people in other casinos or venues and what that will do is prevent the organised crime, organised criminals, using the legitimate gambling venues for criminal purposes like money laundering. That's good to have a national approach.
LUKE GRANT: That Youth Policing Model is a very good idea, it's a shame it's taken so long to come up with it.
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Indeed. And I agree with you there, we should have done something earlier but...
LUKE GRANT: No, I'm not having a shot at you and the Government...
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: No I mean the country.
LUKE GRANT: Yeah exactly. Yeah exactly.
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: But we're moving on it and I'm really looking forward to working in that space. It's really important. And as you said people in the community are sick and tired of this issue...
LUKE GRANT: They are.
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: ...and we need to work out how we can fix it.
LUKE GRANT: Yeah. Good on you. Travel safely and we'll talk to you in a couple of weeks. Good on you Brendan. Thanks very much for you time. That's Brendan O'Connor, the Minister for Home Affairs on MTR, 1377.
