Sky News, Saturday Agenda with Peter van Onselen
26 June 2010
Topics: Prime Minister Julia Gillard, RSPT, asylum seekers.
VAN ONSELEN: We're joined now out of the Sky News studio in Melbourne by one of Julia Gillard's closest political allies, somebody that has basically grown up through the Liberal Party with her, Home Affairs Minister, Brendan O'Connor. Mr O'Connor thanks very much for being with us.
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Thanks very much Peter and I just wanted to correct it. I did grow up with her through the Labor Party - not the Liberal Party.
VAN ONSELEN: Oh did I say the Liberal Party, did I? Sorry, that would have been a great news story. First question, today's opinion polls. There's two polls out, one Galaxy, one AC Nielsen poll. Both show an enormous boost in support, literally, in the short couple of days since Julia Gillard has been made Prime Minister. From your perspective, and from the Labor party's perspective, is it a case of we told you so?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: No, look, the reason the Parliamentary Caucus, the Parliamentary Labor Party made a decision to change leaders was because we believed the Government, a good government, had lost its way and we needed to make sure we refocused on the priorities of Australians. Including of course not only ensuring they understood our economic credentials and the fact that we were going to return the budget to the black in three years' time, three years earlier than before. The fact that we had an agenda, we needed to make sure that was clearly understood. And Julia Gillard, as Prime Minister, has the capacity to articulate those matters very effectively and is a good leader and will be a very good Prime Minister.
VAN ONSELEN: Can I ask, because it's obviously a very big call, albeit by the polling today it would suggest the right call, to remove a first term Prime Minister, and the argument that's coming from yourself just then and most people that have been interviewed about this inside the Caucus, is that the problem with Rudd wasn't his policies, it's not the Government agenda. It is the salesmanship and the fact that he wasn't able to sell it. It's a big call to dump someone, who got you into government and beat John Howard, just because they're not getting their message articulated properly, isn't it?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Look, I'd like to pay tribute to Kevin Rudd. He won an election against one of the canniest Prime Ministers in our history, John Howard. He took the Labor Party out of the wilderness after nearly 12 years in opposition. He has done some remarkable things for this country, particularly of course getting us through the greatest global financial crisis since the Great Depression, out the other side with the best economy in the world. I mean he also of course created history by apologising to Indigenous Australians and there are a whole array of other things that he did that was a testament to his ability, his fortitude and his compassion.
VAN ONSELEN: But Minister despite all of that, he hasn't been able to get himself to a position to be able to defend that record at the next election.
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: And this week, he showed I think great fortitude and dignity in dealing with what was a very, very sad situation for him and he has to be commended for that. And can I say, as one of the members of the Labor Parliamentary Party who had to make a decision, I did not make that decision easily? Nobody made that decision easily. These things are always very difficult. In the end however I think Peter, as you know, parliamentarians are there to make difficult decisions and we made that decision for the future of this country and we made the right decision.
VAN ONSELEN: Am I right though, in terms of the guts of the question that I was asking, am I right in understanding that, and I think this would be right, based on what you just said, you're proud of the record of Kevin Rudd in a policy sense overwhelmingly, but it was just that he wasn't communicating that record and perhaps, not from what you said, but from what other people have said so far, he also wasn't consultative enough internally? Are they the two key reasons why he had to go despite all the very nice things you've just said about him?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Well I talked about his achievements because they were good achievements but there's no doubt there are matters that are unresolved that we need to resolve. The Prime Minister has made clear that she wants to see a resolution to the matters that go to the mining sector and making sure that we actually resolve that issue is significant and she's therefore asked the new Deputy Prime Minister and Treasurer, Wayne Swan, and the Resources Minister, Martin Ferguson, to engage and negotiate in good faith with that sector. That is an issue that's been outstanding and needs resolution.
There are other issues too that need to be resolved, but in the end, this is a government with a good record. We want to make sure the Australian people understand that we place, as our number one priority, the economy, our national security. Along the way of course we've done and will continue to do, some very important things in relation to building the education revolution and also of course reforming our health system so we have more doctors and nurses.
Now these are the things that Australians care about. I know of course others will want to talk about the machinations or internal workings of political parties but in the end this government needed to ensure that it was focussed on the priorities of the Australian people and we are doing that with the new Prime Minister.
VAN ONSELEN: Let's move on to one of those policy issues that you mentioned, the first one, the mining tax. If part of the issue with Kevin Rudd was the salesmanship of how he was pushing the Government agenda and, I guess in relation to the mining tax, the need to make some reforms to that. Part of it is also being pretty frank about the change, isn't it? The Treasurer on radio yesterday described the current settings of the super profits tax that's contained in the Budget papers and so forth. He described it as simply setting the design parameters for the debate. Surely it was more than that, wasn't it?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Look we can always do better and this government prides itself in consulting the affected parties. We can always do better and I think the Prime Minister's made clear that we needed to sit down at the table with the mining sector and nut this out and resolve this for the future of this country.
But let's remember, it was the mining sector itself that said we needed to have a profits based tax. It was the mining sector that conceded that there was more tax to be paid, that is more resources provided to the Australian people ...
VAN ONSELEN: Yes Minister, I do, I do Minister, sorry to interrupt but I do accept all of that but I guess I'm talking about, if you're going to have good faith negotiations now with the mining sector and look to compromise and do a deal essentially the first step to that, as in any first step process is acknowledging that what you had before is not what you're looking to move onto now.
And I have to say I think it's pretty disingenuous of the Treasurer to say that all the super profits tax that you put in the Budget papers so far was setting the design parameters. That is a massive underplay of what the tax was up until now. Surely you'd have to concede that.
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: What I acknowledge is that the Australian people want us to resolve this matter because they are concerned with the uncertainty of this matter being outstanding and for that reason the Treasurer has made clear that, notwithstanding our position in relation to the Budget papers, we were going to and we will continue to speak with the mining sector to resolve those matters of difference.
Now what you've seen already, that's been a symbol of the way in which the Prime Minister wants to deal with these matters. Like us saying we will take off the advertising on television that go to these matters and you've already seen a very, I think, sincere response by the mining sector to do the same with their advertising. That bodes well I say for the negotiations ahead that will be conducted by the Deputy Prime Minister Wayne Swan and the Resources Minister, Martin Ferguson.
VAN ONSELEN: Okay, let me ask you if I can Minister about Julia Gillard. I mentioned off the top that one of her closest allies in the Labor Party. Take us through her path to power. You've known her from the early days. What are the defining moments, as you see them, in her career and what shaped her as our now first female Prime Minister?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Well look she's a woman of great passion. She's always been a person who believes in things. What you see is what you get with her. There is no affectation. She doesn't try to be something she's not. She's got a great capacity to articulate her views. She's a great listener. And I think from the first time I saw her speak to an audience, almost 30 years ago, I was struck by that passion and struck by that great capacity to be clear and hold certain convictions.
Now we've all changed over that long period of time, hopefully for the better, but the essential parts of her still remain - that she is passionate about this country, that she believes in things and that she always annunciates what she thinks. Now these are the things that we would expect the Prime Minister to hold and she does have that.
VAN ONSELEN: What about the evolving - can I ask, what about the evolving balance between pragmatism and ideology? Inevitably people are more ideologically zealous when they're younger and when they, you know, move into a pragmatic realistic environment like Parliament is, they try to make deals and get done what they can. John Howard used to say that it's better to get 80 per cent of what you want 100 per cent of the time than zero per cent of what you would like by staying 100 per cent pure. Is Julia Gillard similarly pragmatic these days?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: I think if you enter politics, into political life, you have to accept that you'll have to reach agreements with other people. It's a consequence of a collegial environment, that you will work through your ideas and you always listen to others and indeed your decisions should be informed by the advice and counsel of others. But in the end, in her case, she will make decisions after listening to people. And I think therefore, she is someone who has one of those rarest of assets Peter, which is of course common sense.
I believe she knows when things are not well devised or not well considered and she is someone who's willing to listen and reconsider circumstances but I do still believe that whilst we are always in a position to have to reconsider matters, she underpins that process with a set of values that has not changed in the 30 years that I've known her.
VAN ONSELEN: Okay, well let's hope that the rare asset that you mentioned of common sense isn't too rare in the Government in the coming months. I'd like to think there's a bit more of that out there. But last question if I can in your portfolio area. Tony Abbott identified three things that he thinks Julia Gillard needs to do to differentiate herself from Kevin Rudd, to be successful. One of which was right in your portfolio area of she needs to stop the boats. How do you respond to that?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Well that is a simplistic view. Of course, what this government wants to do is to prevent vessels, in many cases, unseaworthy vessels, seeking to come to our shores. That's why we put so much resources in preventing vessels hitting our mainland and we're processing of course those that seek asylum. So that those who are not genuine asylum seekers are sent back home.
But there is no magic wand and Mr Abbott is being dishonest when he says that he can turn back in that manner and he knows he's being dishonest. The facts are that these are complex issues but you know, when Julia Gillard became Prime Minister she made clear that firstly she understood the anxiety that Australians feel about these vessels seeking to arrive at our shores. We will be working very, very, very hard to make sure that we continue to maintain and protect our immigration system and our borders. And we'll continue to dedicate resources to ensure that our borders are properly protected so that Australians feel secure. And we'll be considering of course any other options that are available.
But as John Howard found - the Prime Minister who had to deal with the largest surge in our history - these are difficult issues. You need regional cooperation and indeed that's why we're continuing to engage with the countries within the region to make sure we can slow and ultimately stop the vessels seeking to arrive to this country.
VAN ONSELEN: Okay Brendan O'Connor, tumultuous week in Labor Party history. We really appreciate your coming on Saturday Agenda to talk about it with us. Thanks for your time.
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: Thanks very much Peter.
