INTERVIEW - 2SM MORNINGS WITH LEON DELANEY
15 October 2009
Subjects: Asylum seekers and immigration into Australia
DELANEY: Federal Minister for Home Affairs Brendan O'Connor, good morning.
O’CONNOR: Good morning.
DELANEY: How are you today?
O’CONNOR: I'm very well thanks.
DELANEY: Well the asylum seekers are back on the front pages and there's certainly been a lot more debate in recent days associated with the apparent increase in asylum seekers attempting to reach Australia by boat. Now the Opposition's saying it's all your fault for relaxing Australia's immigration policy. Those changes to policy must have had some impact perhaps.
O’CONNOR: Look Leon I'm very happy to have a policy debate with the Opposition but it's impossible while they're in complete chaos. They're split down the middle. They have five or six different views on this. The fact is Leon we're targeting the organised syndicates. Malcolm Turnbull's proposed enquiry is nothing more than naval-gazing exercise. In our view it will do nothing to arrest and prosecute those criminals who seek to profit from desperate people.
DELANEY: At the same time there does seem to have been this very large upswing in activity. Has that not been prompted by changing Government policy?
O’CONNOR: Look, the overwhelming reason for people seeking haven to first world countries - the majority of whom I might add of course are seeking to go to Europe and North America but they do also of course seek to come here is because of the conflicts in Afghanistan, in Sri Lanka. I mean clearly the United Nations made clear the most violent year in Afghanistan since the war began was last year and of course we've just had a very long and bloody conflict - civil war in Sri Lanka. This has caused an increased number of people seeking haven in first world countries. That's the one set universal pull factor that they're first world countries.
But overwhelmingly it's a result of those conflicts and we therefore have to be vigilant. We've got a very - we've dedicated enormous resources to having maritime and aerial surveillance successfully intercept vessels but more importantly I think it's focusing on source and transit countries working with law enforcement agencies in those countries disrupting and dismantling organised syndicates which is a prime basis upon which people seek to get here by unlawful means.
DELANEY: So it's just a coincidence that the Government has changed its policy over the past 12 months or so and seen an increase in activity?
O’CONNOR: Well firstly can I say the Opposition didn't oppose any changes we made into the policy and then indeed they have a variety of views on this matter. That's why it's very difficult to engage on them - engage with them on policy matters. But can I just make the point that there are - that there's clear cases where increases occur because of external factors.
It was the case under the previous Government. In 1998 for example, there were 200 irregular arrivals. Now without any change of Government, without any change of domestic policy, in 1999 under the Howard Government there were 4000 irregular arrivals. A twenty fold increase in arrivals without changes to domestic policy because the primary reason for this to occur is due to external factors - conflicts around the world and we're not - we're of course sharing this problem with a many other first world nations.
DELANEY: Has the Government ever received any advice from its official bodies that the changes to Australian Government policy might be used by people smugglers as a marketing tool to encourage smuggling?
O’CONNOR: No I've not been advised in relation to that particular point that you've just made but can I say to you that what we are aware of is that people smugglers, organised criminal syndicates will say and do anything to entice people to give them their life savings, to get onto dangerous vessels and to embark on a perilous journey through the waters.
Now we know that and what we need to do is continue to focus our energies in collaborating with law enforcement agencies in Indonesian and Sri Lanka and other places to disrupt and dismantle these organised syndicates.
They will say anything. They perpetrated myths under the previous government and they will continue to do so now because this is a grubby, vile practice where they seek to take the money off people and put them in dangerous situations.
Our response is to provide more resources; work closer with law enforcement agencies like the Indonesian National Police and smash these syndicates.
DELANEY: Now it's true isn't it that under both the previous government and this government the vast majority of people who are seeking asylum are found to be genuine refugees ultimately, regardless of what the policies might be?
O’CONNOR: We accept our fair share of humanitarian relief. What we have to accept and I think it's important for people to understand is that there are tens of millions of people forcibly displaced around the world. There are - it's estimated by the UNHCR 15 million refugees around the world. Now we take out - what I think is a fair share of refugees and we want to make sure there's an orderly process where people are assessed and we are able to give humanitarian relief along with other countries.
But what we cannot do is condone in any way an improper, unlawful, and indeed dangerous practice that will place people in peril and exploit desperate families. What we need to do therefore is to target those criminal syndicates that are seeking to exploit people, as I say, rob them of their life savings on an empty promise.
DELANEY: Is there a perception amongst the Australia public that asylum seekers on boats are some sort of threat to National Security and to the safety of our nation? And is that perception something that's being exploited for political purposes?
O’CONNOR: Look, I think that people have a variety of views on these matters. We know that these issues are hotly debated, they are concern - you know people on one hand are concerned about the plight of people around the world. We're, I think, we are a generous nation and of course our heart goes out to people.
At the same time Australians do expect to maintain the integrity of their border, to maintain the integrity of the immigration system.
And I can assure you the Rudd Government is focused on reinforcing those matters because it's critical that even if we are able to provide some support and provide our fair share of support to people, we must send a message that we do not tolerate in any way the involvement of criminal syndicates to exploit desperate people.
And we will therefore, of course, have provide more resources in Colombo, in - across Indonesia and in other countries to disrupt and ultimately dismantle these syndicates.
DELANEY: The decision to request that Indonesian authorities intercept the boat presently in question whilst it's still in Indonesian waters, does that represent as some have suggested, a move towards what they might be describe as the Indonesian solution?
O’CONNOR: I think the successful interception by Indonesian authorities of a vessel some days ago underlines the fact that this is a regional response to a regional and indeed global problem.
The fact is the Indonesian's have made clear they do not tolerate people-smuggling and they, as a result, have intercepted this vessel.
Now we need to work very closely with all of the countries within the region. These are not matters that can be confined to this domestic activity and therefore we appreciate the efforts made by the Indonesian authorities recently.
DELANEY: But it's true, isn't it, that if this interception concludes successfully, the asylum seekers will be detained in an Indonesian detention facility which has been in part financed by the Australian Government.
O’CONNOR: Well if people are acting up…
DELANEY: [Interrupts] So how is that different from the Nauru situation?
O’CONNOR: Well if people are acting unlawfully, Leon, and a sovereign nation decides to act as a result of that unlawful behaviour, that's entirely proper and it's entirely a decision of, in this case, the Indonesian authorities.
DELANEY: Yes, but with the encouragement and the assistance, including financial assistance of the Australian Government, how is that different from the Pacific solution if the asylum seekers wind up in, what is to us, an offshore detention facility and then processed and have their applications considered?
O’CONNOR: There are of course detention centres across the world and certainly across our region. We continue to work very closely with the Indonesian Government, with other governments within the region, to combat this vile trade.
It's really important now that we continue to work closely together. This is not something our country can do on its own and that's why we appreciate the efforts of Indonesia and other authorities.
But can I say to you, there's nothing new in us sharing information and providing support and having support provided to us by countries within the region. This is a regional problem needing regional solutions.
DELANEY: Here's a point a raised with the Shadow Minister today, is this whole issue being somewhat exaggerated and blown out of proportion, particularly in the media, when it's contrasted with the question of people who arrive via airports on legitimate visas and then overstay their visas vastly outnumber asylum seekers arriving by boat? And are a greater threat to our economic stability by stealing Australian jobs?
O’CONNOR: I think it's of concern to people in this country when there are those criminal elements within the region willing to exploit people. I mean let's remember now that this approach is placing people in peril.
We don't know of those vessels that may not make it, clearly we are aware though that it is a very dangerous journey to try to get to our shores in this manner and therefore, it is entirely proper that we dedicate our resources to disrupt the syndicates but also to send a very strong message that this is not the right approach and instead we need people to understand there's an orderly process…
DELANEY: Yes.
O’CONNOR: …engaging with the UNHCR, the International Organisation of Migration, and indeed, countries in the region to deal with this issue. It is not at all tolerable for people-smuggling syndicates to operate in this manner.
DELANEY: Are the passengers on those boats villains or victims?
O’CONNOR: I think it's fair to say they are victims of people -smugglers and indeed, they should be operating through the proper processes.
Now I understand and the Government understands the desperation that people may feel but this the wrong approach and the Government makes no apology for being very tough on ensuring that our immigration system is properly respected.
DELANEY: Thanks very much for your time today.
O’CONNOR: Thank you very much, Leon.
DELANEY: Thanks for that. Brendan O'Connor, the Federal Minister of Home Affairs.
